Engineered stone ban

[Bethlehem]

I would have loved to have picked other options than stone for our new build. Unfortunately the only options provided were laminate, which would have cost more and marble or timber which were both very expensive. I really wanted the recycled glass option but they don’t install it regionally without massive expense. Our kitchen team certainly didn’t stock or install it. 

[Elfie34]

2 hours ago, Bornagirl said:

I'm lowering the standard of my suburb by having chosen laminate. I hate hard, cold surfaces, and prefer not to have timber.

I think you chose wisely, I succumbed to peer pressure and regret it!

[Bethlehem]

There are also issues with granite. Especially as our installation and gaps get reduced. 
https://www.epa.gov/radiation/granite-countertops-and-radiation

[amdirel]

I'm glad to hear this. I saw the 60 minutes segment on this the other week and was incredulous that a ban wasn't being discussed. 

[Jenflea]

If I ever redo my kitchen, I'm going laminate again. While I hate ours (It's TEXTURED FFS) at least it's easy to look after and hopefully doesn't kill the people who make it. 

[Mooguru]

I feel like I read an article stating that some laminates aren't recommended for people with respiratory issues and can cause issues for workers because of the formaldehyde component but I can't find anything with a basic google search. Don't suppose anyone here knows anything?

[Crombek]

I didn't think mdf or laminate in Australia used formaldehyde? I've actually got a book on low tox living/building somewhere packed away.

[Bornagirl]

38 minutes ago, Mooguru said:

I feel like I read an article stating that some laminates aren't recommended for people with respiratory issues and can cause issues for workers because of the formaldehyde component but I can't find anything with a basic google search. Don't suppose anyone here knows anything?

I did my degree at RMIT with a friend who discovered the hard way that she was allergic (?intolerant) to the crap that binds the chipboard under any other surface, be that laminate or otherwise.   She failed an exam that I got a distinction on, and she was equally capable, then one other night called me to come and sleep at her place as she felt 'weird'.  Turned out to be formaldehyde in dry cleaning fluid and she was warned that she should keep any newly installed cabinetry etc that wasn't 100% timber, or whatever, seriously well aired.  She also has to wash ANY sheets, towels etc that she buys before she even takes a breath around them.

Although none of us have an issue, I've kept my asthmatic daughter out of any areas that are a risk when newly installed. She's had zero problems, so who knows?  May be like some things, some are susceptible, others zero issues.

[linen_and_lace]

3 hours ago, Bethlehem said:

There are also issues with granite. Especially as our installation and gaps get reduced. 
https://www.epa.gov/radiation/granite-countertops-and-radiation

I think your claim is misleading. From the article: "It is extremely unlikely that radiation from granite countertops would increase annual radiation doses above normal, natural background levels."

 

Also, this whirlpool thread started by a stonemason is eyeopening and very informative for anyone looking into benchtop options https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2795256

[WaitForMe]

I had no idea when I had our kitchen done. Pretty sure it was dry cut on the roadside.

[Kadoodle]

I feel less bad about my ugly 1980s laminate and home made/repaired 1920s wooden bench tops now. The work kitchen and bathroom are stainless steel, and while I don’t love it (it’s a bitch to keep looking unmarked) I know it’s safe at least. 

[blackcat20]

We have stone in the kitchen, but chose laminate for the bathrooms and laundry. No idea how it was cut, hopefully safely but impossible to know.

[purplekitty]

I feel it's the trend to an unregulated market and lack of controls that previous governments have encouraged that have enabled this problem to remain unresolved.

Definitely cowboys have been encouraged to maximise profit at the expense of lowly paid workers.

Perhaps a ban is needed, increasing workplace safety and surveillance  may effectively do this because of the cost of bringing manufacturing up to standard.

 

It's an indictment that this continues,I had thought it had been dealt with, as the discussion has come up regularly over the decades.

 

Here's an article from 1949 on Sandstone Silicosis in the UK.

There's really no excuse except profit.

https://oem.bmj.com/content/oemed/6/4/241.full.pdf

[Kadoodle]

Don’t you know we have to cut red tape and stop having to asquience to the unreasonable OHS demands getting in the way of unbridled growth and profit?

[pelagic]

I wonder if there's a way of making hard kitchen tops from recycled plastics. 

[Ozgirl]

1 hour ago, pelagic said:

I wonder if there's a way of making hard kitchen tops from recycled plastics. 

There is. there are def using it in the US and UK. 
 

I’ve known about it for years. Unpopular but The Project have been reporting on it for a long time. I certainly said no to it and got laminate in my kitchen which was done 5years ago. 

[pelagic]

I just looked at some. They look okay. I'd prefer them to wood. 

[Basil]

23 hours ago, Kiwi Bicycle said:

It's stupid cowboys cutting dry casearstone, wearing little PPE onsite that are the issue. Cutting any stone ( granite, marble etc is going to do the same. As @LemonMyrtlesays there's safe ways to do it. They can remove asbestos safely, they can cut casearstone properly. I actually think Qld's ban on cutting it dry is a better first step along with enforcement. Why ban a totally fabulous product because people cannot take proper precautions? Cut it offsite using wet robotics in a sealed room! Make no cuts onsite.

I’m in Qld and we cracked our induction cooktop a few years ago.  I thought it would be a simple replacement but the new model was a slightly different size and our Caesarstone benchtop had to be cut to fit it in.  Obviously being an existing kitchen, they can’t take the benchtop offsite to cut.  When we were getting quotes on the stone cutting, we also asked how they were going to do it because we didn’t want to expose the tradies or our family to the silica dust.  

One company was going to set up plastic sheets and create a sealed room with an industrial HEPA air filter and cut it inside that (I don’t remember if it was wet or dry cutting). The one we went with (insurance organised it) took out all our drawers underneath the stone and set up a plastic tub out of sheeting.  They wet cut with a special machine that fed a trickle of water to the blade.  The guy also wore PPE with a filter pump thing around his waist.  The cutting actually took very little time, they spent longer on the plastic set up and clean up than anything else.

A friend of ours is one of the leading doctors in this area and he was telling us that early detection and diagnosis is really important with silicosis.  They can treat it if they catch it early enough.  It’s fascinating.  They’re finding success with trials of essentially flooding the lungs with water which dislodges the silica particles and they then remove it.  I have no idea about pain or recovery time but it is a good reminder for anyone who is in an environment that is prone to that sandy dust (it’s not just man made stone benchtops), get yourself checked regularly.

[Hills Mum Bec]

2 hours ago, pelagic said:

I wonder if there's a way of making hard kitchen tops from recycled plastics. 

Not sure about plastic but you can get benchtops made from recycled glass and they look pretty much the same as engineered stone but without the silica.

https://www.bettastone.com.au/

 

[Basil]

25 minutes ago, Hills Mum Bec said:

Not sure about plastic but you can get benchtops made from recycled glass and they look pretty much the same as engineered stone but without the silica.

https://www.bettastone.com.au/

 

I’m being pedantic but glass is essentially silica, just the non crystalline form which isn’t the risk for silicosis.  

It’s the crystalline silica that’s in quartz which is the big risk when it becomes fine dust.

[Jerry]

DP is an Opal Cutter and has long been aware of silicosis issues in gem/stone cutting industries. Definitely little regulation in those (often home based) industries. Whilst he has been aware of the dangers, he really hasn't taken many precautions. 

(Opal has the same consistency as glass, but is in hard stone)

[Kadoodle]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

DP is an Opal Cutter and has long been aware of silicosis issues in gem/stone cutting industries. Definitely little regulation in those (often home based) industries. Whilst he has been aware of the dangers, he really hasn't taken many precautions. 

(Opal has the same consistency as glass, but is in hard stone)

So it’s still like it was back in the day with people buying prospecting sites and cutting and drilling in one or two person operations? 
My grandfather used to cut quartz he’d dug up with a wetsaw so it didn’t spark and cause fires, but I don’t think he ever worried about breathing it in. 

[Jerry]

7 minutes ago, Kadoodle said:

So it’s still like it was back in the day with people buying prospecting sites and cutting and drilling in one or two person operations? 
My grandfather used to cut quartz he’d dug up with a wetsaw so it didn’t spark and cause fires, but I don’t think he ever worried about breathing it in. 

Definitely still like that!

DP has had microplasma pneumonia from breathing in the wet stone dust. No regulations in backyard industries.

[Kiwi Bicycle]

This makes me so angry. I have worked in the safety equipment and PPE industry. The stuff is out there, been there for years. Gee my cousin who is a commercial welder is bloody minded about it and wore his full welding helmet and powered respirator when doing a small metal cut for us. Wear a fringing respirator suitable for purpose and eyewear. Wear disposable overalls or have overalls you don't bring home and chuck in the washing machine, and just store in a sealed bag. It really simple. All dust is an irritant, not just silica. Just like all inhaled smoke is not supposed to be in your lungs.

[pelagic]

7 hours ago, Hills Mum Bec said:

Not sure about plastic but you can get benchtops made from recycled glass and they look pretty much the same as engineered stone but without the silica.

https://www.bettastone.com.au/

 

They look pretty good too.