The Brereton Report - GRAPHIC

[Guest]

We've been told it was going to be bad. Up to 1/3rd has been redacted, and the public will never now the full truth. A snippet below of what we are privy to is bad enough.

The report concludes that there were 39 individuals killed, a further two cruelly treated, and a total of 25 current or former ADF personnel who were perpetrators.

What national shame. Shame on us. No words.

 

“We embarked on this inquiry with the hope that we would be able to report that the rumours of war crimes were without substance. None of us desired the outcome to which we have come,” he said. “We are all diminished by it.”

The inquiry was triggered by work by military sociologist Samantha Crompvoets, who was tasked with examining special forces culture and began to hear disturbing allegations of war crimes.

One soldier told her: “Guys just had this blood lust. Psychos. Absolute psychos. And we bred them.”

She heard one alleged incident in which two 14-year-old boys were stopped by SAS, who decided they might be Taliban sympathisers. Their throats were slit.

“The rest of the troop then had to ‘clean up the mess’ by finding others to help dispose of the bodies,” Crompvoets reported. “In the end, the bodies were bagged and thrown in a nearby river.”

Crompvoets told the Guardian she expected the findings of the Brereton report would force a fundamental rethink of special forces culture.

Human rights groups want report into 'bone-chilling' claims against SAS released in full

“They have no choice but to learn from this and to make sure that the reasons it manifested in the first place never occur again,” she said.

Much of the evidence had already been canvassed publicly, through extensive media reporting. The ABC has revealed footage of one SAS member standing over an unarmed civilian, asking his superior “you want me to drop this cunt”, before executing the man as he cowered in a wheat field.

A US marine who worked with Australian troops also alleged a civilian was shot dead because there was not enough room for him on a helicopter.

In a separate alleged incident, an Afghan man was used as “target practice” after running from an SAS patrol, throwing a phone away and then putting his hands up. A signals intelligence officer accompanying the patrol, Braden Chapman, told the ABC he was then shot in cold blood.

“He put his hands up just like that,” Chapman said earlier this year. “And then just stood there. As we got closer to him the soldier then just fired, and hit him twice in the chest and then shot him through the head as he walked past him. And then from there he just moved on.

“I was only five to 10 metres behind him at the time. And at the time I was just like, OK, the visual image to me was the guy had his hands up and then it was almost like target practice for that soldier.”

Prior leaks of internal reviews have suggested that special forces were, prior to 2015 operating with a sense of entitlement, arrogance and elitism, governed only through a weak command culture.

A briefing in 2016 on the culture of special forces found soldiers were motivated by “blood lust” during the torture and execution of Afghan prisoners, according to the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age.

Defence has only released a redacted version of Brereton’s findings, blacking out some sections and suppressing names and identities.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/19/australian-special-forces-involved-in-of-39-afghan-civilians-war-crimes-report-alleges

Edited November 19, 2020 by Anonymous

[Guest]

A link to the redacted version of the report.

https://afghanistaninquiry.defence.gov.au/

[Guest]

Horrifying. Incidents reported are the kinds that when shown in movies they are the unbelievable and over the top acts of psychopathic action villains.

I do wonder how you can ever hope to have a military force tasked with the things they are and not expect to have to manage either inherent or developed blood lust.

Hopefully this report marks a turning point.

[purplekitty]

So may questions about cover ups and protection by politicians and defence hierarchy.

The whistleblowers are soldiers themselves.

Also why is Stokes bankrolling Robert-Smith's defence and that of the other special forces soldiers in the report.

[Guest]

I haven't read and heard enough to respond to that, but I have read that many higher ranking personal are protected due to their positions and involvement being outside the scope of the report. Can't comment further yet til I properly understand it.

I bet this barely scrapes the surface. I also wonder if this will give confidence to others to make further complaints of war crimes.

[Guest Chic n Stu]

Reprehensible, murderous and atrociously short sighted if you accept that the ADF's stated goals are their actual goals. Either the tail is well and truly wagging the dog and TPTB are covering up out of courtesy/arse-covering for themselves, or they actively condone it and support it. Not sure it really matters which is which at this point.

Looking at the bigger picture, is it really any wonder? We've had decades of soft-handed politicians jerking off and beating their chests about ARE BOYS and MATESHIP and NATION BUILDING AT GALLIPOLI to bolster their own image in the community and create an unthinking hero worship, to the point that any well-deserved shit talking about our armed services or invasion of foreign lands gets you the side-eye in real life (yeah I go there). Yet again we can claim to be not quite as psychotic as the US, but are definitely an also-ran in solider worship. It's pretty reasonable that these murderous shits figured they were acting with impunity because to the best of their knowledge, they were.

It'll never be revealed, but goddamn I'd love to know the background behind nominating Ben Roberts-Smith for his awards when subsequent investigation has shown he stinks to high heaven. There's no way they could have been completely ignorant but the "I dare you to report on it" factor was definitely at play here

[VictorineTheCatLover]

These are War Crimes. Let's call them what they actually are!

[Guest]

I haven't read and heard enough to respond to that, but I have read that many higher ranking personal are protected due to their positions and involvement being outside the scope of the report. Can't comment further yet til I properly understand it.

I bet this barely scrapes the surface. I also wonder if this will give confidence to others to make further complaints of war crimes.

 

If the deacdes of inquiries and commission reports into reporting wrongdoing in the police forces are anything to go by then I think it will be a very long time before people in the military see reporting wrongdoing as anything but a 'dog act'.

[Iamferalz]

I bet this barely scrapes the surface. I also wonder if this will give confidence to others to make further complaints of war crimes.

 

Yes, for a highly secretive branch of the military there just has to be more unreported incidents. What makes all this so creepy is that it’s so ritualistic, to do with making soldiers fit in. How would the culture be transformed without disbanding them?

I wonder if it’s a problem in other countries elite forces too?

[Bad Cat]

Can't say I'm surprised.

People sign up for a job which involves killing people, it's a given that a percentage of them will not be too fussed on who they kill.

We've known for a very long time that some soldiers from the US (and other countries for that matter) are murderers, did we really think our soldiers would be any better?

[TheGreenSheep]

What stinks is that for the thousands of men and women who have served our country proudly, that their service, commitment, sacrifices and hard work have been soiled by the actions of a small group of psychopaths. It casts doubts over soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice and the families who are left to mourn their memories.

Committing war crimes is heinous and those who are found to be guilty should be thrown in The Hague.

[purplekitty]

What stinks is that for the thousands of men and women who have served our country proudly, that their service, commitment, sacrifices and hard work have been soiled by the actions of a small group of psychopaths. It casts doubts over soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice and the families who are left to mourn their memories.

Committing war crimes is heinous and those who are found to be guilty should be thrown in The Hague.

Many have suffered because of that they had to do at war, sometimes at the mercy of men like these.

Suicides and mental illness because of what they experienced and were ordered to do.

There is a trail of damage men like these leave behind,both of enemies they brutalised and the people that had to serve with them.

[Lucrezia Borgia]

has Morrison or the Defence Minister said anything on the record about this? it’s horrifying, but not overly surprising. seems like the govt’s response to the IGADF report is IDGAF.

(they actually should change that acronym though)

[purplekitty]

The current GC Hurley was in charge of defence forces in Afghanistan during the period in question.

[Lucrezia Borgia]

as Napoleon said “there are no bad soldiers, only bad generals”.

let’s see some consequences for the highest ranking people over there (and then i’m happy for it to trickle down).

[Kiwi Bicycle]

Also why is Stokes bankrolling Robert-Smith's defence and that of the other special forces soldiers in the report.

 

Because he's his employer and he's putting his medals up for collateral. And because everyone needs a lawyer and has to fund it somehow.

It also seems that Stokes has a previous relationship with the SAS members. Even WW2 war crimes people were allowed lawyers.

"Mr Stokes has a close relationship with current and ex-SAS troops, as well as their families and was the architect of the SAS Resources Fund that was established in 1996 following the Blackhawk disaster."

[purplekitty]

Also why is Stokes bankrolling Robert-Smith's defence and that of the other special forces soldiers in the report.

 

Because he's his employer and he's putting his medals up for collateral. And because everyone needs a lawyer and has to fund it somehow.

It also seems that Stokes has a previous relationship with the SAS members. Even WW2 war crimes people were allowed lawyers.

"Mr Stokes has a close relationship with current and ex-SAS troops, as well as their families and was the architect of the SAS Resources Fund that was established in 1996 following the Blackhawk disaster."

I didn't suggest R-S wasn't allowed legal representation, you're entitled to it unless you are poor.

Conflict of interest with Stokes ownership of media, let's hope that doesn't affect the independence of reporting,

Ha.

[TheGreenSheep]

I thinks it’s a fabulous idea for BRS to use his VC and gallantry medals as collateral for Stokes. They’ll be worthless afterwards and I doubt the AWM will want to hang them anywhere in their hallowed walls.

[purplekitty]

[Ozquoll]

Yes it is. I’m dealing with the PTSD caused by it, and by whistleblowing about it. Why is anyone surprised that when we dehumanise an enemy, that they’re treated inhumanly by the people we send to kill them?

 

It may be the other way around - the only way you will ever convince normal, non-psychopathic people to kill is to dehumanise the people they are tasked with killing. Once you have got someone in the mindset that the enemy is inhuman enough to warrant killing, it is rather hard to convince them to be "nice" about it.

[Guest]

I feel we have been delivered a carefully curated narrative where they victims are the innocent defence force personnel, and the reputation of the ADF. No, the victims are the dead innocent Afghan civilians and their families. I suppose it's the same with police... they'll brutalise and kill someone in custody and the narrative turns to the 'good apples' every single time.

[TinCat]

I feel we have been delivered a carefully curated narrative where they victims are the innocent defence force personnel, and the reputation of the ADF. No, the victims are the dead innocent Afghan civilians and their families. I suppose it's the same with police... they'll brutalise and kill someone in custody and the narrative turns to the 'good apples' every single time.

 

As someone who is married to one of the good apples, being able to distinguish between the good and the rotten and remind the general public about the good is really important.

The good apples do not deserve to have their reputations, their hard work, their and their families sacrifices forgotten or tarnished because of a few.

Don't get me wrong, what has happened is abhorrent and I hope the full weight of the law is used.

But if you don't make that distinction, you run the risk of the general community turning against the thousands of defence personnel and their families, or worse. And they don't deserve that either.

[Princess Peach]

What stinks is that for the thousands of men and women who have served our country proudly, that their service, commitment, sacrifices and hard work have been soiled by the actions of a small group of psychopaths. It casts doubts over soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice and the families who are left to mourn their memories.

Committing war crimes is heinous and those who are found to be guilty should be thrown in The Hague.

Many have suffered because of that they had to do at war, sometimes at the mercy of men like these.

Suicides and mental illness because of what they experienced and were ordered to do.

There is a trail of damage men like these leave behind,both of enemies they brutalised and the people that had to serve with them.

 

And that damage is keeping on giving through their children & grandchildren. Studies into Vietnam veterans children show a high possibility that PTSD can be inherited. Vietnam veterans children are already more likely than their peers to develop a mental illness. The armed forces have a lot to answer for.

[Murderino]

I bet not one of the 25 ends up with a criminal conviction.

 

I bet this barely scrapes the surface. I also wonder if this will give confidence to others to make further complaints of war crimes.

 

With a father and sister who were defence I agree. They too were "good apples" but I very much know my sister stood by while abusive shit was done to people to, in her words, break them down to build them up.

We were having an unrelated conversation at the weekend where she was telling my kids about her training and some of the abusive bullshit that happens. Although she was telling them as the reason why they should never join any branch of the ADF when I summed it up with "all stuff that is unnecessary to do to someone who will end up being a cook, a driver or an anyone really" she defended it as necessary. I'll never agree.

 

Yes, for a highly secretive branch of the military there just has to be more unreported incidents. What makes all this so creepy is that it’s so ritualistic, to do with making soldiers fit in. How would the culture be transformed without disbanding them?

I wonder if it’s a problem in other countries elite forces too?

 

They have all had their own inquiries in recent years -

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/nov/17/british-government-army-accused-covering-up-war-crimes-afghanistan-iraq

and Human Rights Watch are watching this UK legislation closely:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/03/20/uk-bill-license-military-crimes

When the story of the bound prisoner being shot as they had one too many to fit in the helicopter was in the paper there was a quote from a UK special forces guy about no one wanting to work with that SAS unit (I think they were called November). I just remember thinking "oh please, as if your guys haven't done it too". There is no justification ever but the holier than thou way the guy's quote was phrased really struck me.