How small is too small for a block of land?

[LemonMyrtle]

I just found the article that I was vaguely remembering. It was this very estate that’s in the OP, that had residents complaining about lack of services and transport. Westfield has pulled the pin on the shopping precinct, and the train station hasn’t happened. No public buses either.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/isolated-suburb-still-waiting-for-a-train-a-bus-a-store-an-answer-20240905-p5k81v.html

knew it seemed familiar for some reason. 
the primary school should open in 2 years at least, that’s something. But no high school. 

 

[STBG 2]

Lots of people do not want a lot of land, backyards are being replaced by community living playgrounds and gardens and around these parts these town houses sell like hot cakes. 

 

[Jolly_F]

It’s not for me but plenty of people don’t want a yard to maintain, they also do not want to do apartment living, so this seems like a good option! 

[BECZ]

I was at the park some years ago with my kids and I was talking to a group of other parents who told me that, “You Aussies are silly! Why pay for a back yard when you can come here for free!” Also mentioning how they don’t have to maintain it either, but personally I still like my backyard (even thought it’s a bit messy) and space, particularly with kids. Kids are noisy and I don’t have to worry as much when there is at least 3-4 metres between the houses. Which, yes is a privilege, but our house is old as a consequence. 
I guess we all just have our preferences.

[dianalynch]

We don’t have a large block, just over 300m2, and everyone thought we were crazy paying a house like price for a new duplex on a smaller block…but like kiwi and others have said, sometimes it’s about the design and a lot can be done with smaller blocks and duplexes, townhouses, terraces and apartments…it’s just a shame that quality builds are so rare.

We have the most beautiful high ceilings like the ones found in late 1800s and early 1900s terraces in the inner suburbs, a proper hall, with the highest rated insulation and commercial grade double glazing…I have literally never heard our neighbours even with an adjoining wall. It’s lovely to live in, and it’s a good example of contemporary medium density. When I look at so many beautiful older terraced homes in the inner suburbs that have stood the test of time, I can see that in the past we did medium density really well. It wasn’t always considered to be second or third rate. 
 

Yet developers and builders get away with slapping together cheap builds that won’t last 10 years. We need more homes, we need medium and higher density homes, but we don’t need shit ones. 

[BoyMum2]

45 minutes ago, BECZ said:

I was at the park some years ago with my kids and I was talking to a group of other parents who told me that, “You Aussies are silly! Why pay for a back yard when you can come here for free!” Also mentioning how they don’t have to maintain it either, but personally I still like my backyard (even thought it’s a bit messy) and space, particularly with kids. Kids are noisy and I don’t have to worry as much when there is at least 3-4 metres between the houses. Which, yes is a privilege, but our house is old as a consequence. 
I guess we all just have our preferences.

My response to that person would have been - Why pay for a house when you have to leave it all the time to take your kids over to a park for fresh air and a play. 
 At least at my home I can watch them outside but also pour myself a glass of wine. Or literally anything else I want to do. And don’t have to push anyone on a swing. 

[STBG 2]

1 hour ago, BoyMum2 said:

My response to that person would have been - Why pay for a house when you have to leave it all the time to take your kids over to a park for fresh air and a play. 
 At least at my home I can watch them outside but also pour myself a glass of wine. Or literally anything else I want to do. And don’t have to push anyone on a swing. 

I have always liked a yard but let's face it having big blocks if it is city living is financially out of reach for many young families so the modern concept of having a beautiful park (and some around here are really cool) is a great choice too. You can always sit with a wine and watch them in the park. Not our estate so much as we still have single home blocks but estates in our vicinity are built around massive play grounds and wetlands which have everything including skate parks and basketball courts.

[blackcat20]

Our block is under 500sqm but we have a great back yard, room for the trampoline, veggie patch, fruit trees and climbing frame/slide. I love being able to sit out the back while the kids play. But equally, we also have three great playgrounds and a wetland in our estate and the kids love to catch up with school friends for a play. The townhouses are all built closest to the parks and given how quickly they sell, clearly its a good lifestyle for many.

[Over and out]

1 minute ago, blackcat20 said:

Our block is under 500sqm but we have a great back yard, room for the trampoline, veggie patch, fruit trees and climbing frame/slide. I love being able to sit out the back while the kids play. But equally, we also have three great playgrounds and a wetland in our estate and the kids love to catch up with school friends for a play. The townhouses are all built closest to the parks and given how quickly they sell, clearly its a good lifestyle for many.

Our townhouse, which we sold some years back (and regretted) was 440sqm. That ws a big block for a townhouse and there was a magnificent park as part of the estate (ex school which was Jeff Kennet'ed),

[BoyMum2]

10 hours ago, STBG 2 said:

I have always liked a yard but let's face it having big blocks if it is city living is financially out of reach for many young families so the modern concept of having a beautiful park (and some around here are really cool) is a great choice too. You can always sit with a wine and watch them in the park. Not our estate so much as we still have single home blocks but estates in our vicinity are built around massive play grounds and wetlands which have everything including skate parks and basketball courts.

My kids are at an age where I'm really really burnt out from playgrounds so my comment is certainly from a skewed perspective. Also, we specifically left the city for a regional area so we could afford more space for our kids, including a bigger block than we'd ever be able to afford in the city. Not a choice everyone can make but definitely the right one for us. It is so much better for me in every way that I can just be home and the kids can be outside, entertaining themselves safely but without active supervision for hours - we have hammock swings, trampoline, bikes, scooters, gymnast bar and mats, plus a pool and an outdoor entertaining area with lounges and TV. I can get the whole house cleaned of a Saturday morning and barely see them.  
 

[STBG 2]

5 minutes ago, BoyMum2 said:

My kids are at an age where I'm really really burnt out from playgrounds so my comment is certainly from a skewed perspective. Also, we specifically left the city for a regional area so we could afford more space for our kids, including a bigger block than we'd ever be able to afford in the city. Not a choice everyone can make but definitely the right one for us. It is so much better for me in every way that I can just be home and the kids can be outside, entertaining themselves safely but without active supervision for hours - we have hammock swings, trampoline, bikes, scooters, gymnast bar and mats, plus a pool and an outdoor entertaining area with lounges and TV. I can get the whole house cleaned of a Saturday morning and barely see them.  
 

Believe me, I get that. We had a big yard and our lot spent most of their play time in it however we also did parks because it was just a change of scenery. I do understand my privilege that we had all that space.

Thing is that I had a choice and it sounds like you do too but with the housing crisis some parents don't have that and estate parks are the best they can do and those I know are pretty awesome.

[lozoodle]

I live on a 700m block so that seems insane to me!

Edited to add - i can see it appealing to those wanting to move into the more tiny house / simple lifestyle I guess, but that probably doesn't fit in the lego land type suburbs?

Edited September 26 by lozoodle

[Crombek]

11 minutes ago, lozoodle said:

I live on a 700m block so that seems insane to me!

Edited to add - i can see it appealing to those wanting to move into the more tiny house / simple lifestyle I guess, but that probably doesn't fit in the lego land type suburbs?

I live on 40 acres and just driving past newer subdivisions makes me feel panicky and trapped! 

[VeritasVinumArte]

https://www.bullhomes.eu/product-page/86m2-plan-44065td?lang=en
 

I don’t mind this

[Dadwasathome]

Our current block is 670sqm. The only larger block in the street is 720sqm with a block of 6 units next door. We moved from a 290sqm block down the road. We’d moved into that from terraces on more like 150sqm

[BECZ]

We joke (well, not so unrealistic these days) that if we never get around to building the large home which we always planned, we may have to squeeze 5 houses on our block.
Duplex across the front, another down the side and a single level freestanding house at the back for DP and I, along with a small courtyard each and a communal pool, etc.

Far from my ideal option as I believe people need to leave home and create their own lives, but with the price of land and if the kids still want to live in Sydney, it may become a reality sometime down the track.

Edited September 26 by BECZ

[blackcat20]

This is what we are building (the block is 108sqm)

[Greenbean]

I'm not sure the issue. We have a housing crisis. Even large blocks aren't always well designed (yay for the Mac mansion) and if blocks just keep getting bigger the further out you go there's not really a cost saving from moving out wards. Yep some people move out to get more space but not everyone can afford that.

I live very inner city, and part of the reason I haven't moved despite sometimes wishing for more outdoor space was that the price it came with was silly. I couldn't justify moving further away and paying a lot more for a tiny bit of extra land that's still on an owner's corp.

[Gumbette]

But for those of us who are ageing, a 2 or 3 storey dwelling doesn't work. One of the reasons I love our current place is the lack of stairs.  We lived in a stupidly large 2 storey mcmansion, and I wouldn't go back for the world even if we are now a bit cramped. 

[123tree]

17 hours ago, STBG 2 said:

Lots of people do not want a lot of land, backyards are being replaced by community living playgrounds and gardens and around these parts these town houses sell like hot cakes. 

 

Unfortunately a lot of these smalll blocks aren’t facilitated by these community living spaces.  They aren’t in place.  People snap them up because they are often under the false illusion that these things are coming or are desperate for entry into the housing market at a lower price point (that isn’t that low).  Because of parking issues sometimes services like fire trucks and garbage trucks have trouble getting access to service them.  

[STBG 2]

32 minutes ago, 123tree said:

Unfortunately a lot of these smalll blocks aren’t facilitated by these community living spaces.  They aren’t in place.  People snap them up because they are often under the false illusion that these things are coming or are desperate for entry into the housing market at a lower price point (that isn’t that low).  Because of parking issues sometimes services like fire trucks and garbage trucks have trouble getting access to service them.  

I did say those around me, I have no idea about other areas. I know several people ( friends of my kids )who have moved into one of these and they knew exactly what they were doing when they bought, they also checked accessibility, public transport and community areas. The infrastructure is very important when developers plan these estates.

They are entering the market the only way they could, none of them imagine that it will be their first and last place.

[STBG 2]

1 hour ago, Gumbette said:

But for those of us who are ageing, a 2 or 3 storey dwelling doesn't work. One of the reasons I love our current place is the lack of stairs.  We lived in a stupidly large 2 storey mcmansion, and I wouldn't go back for the world even if we are now a bit cramped. 

I don't think that the elderly are the target market for these places. It seems to be all young families trying to make a start around these parts.

[Kiwi Bicycle]

Don't forget stairs lifts are easily added if the stairs are straight or only have one bend. Unfortunately one has been added to a relative's house for a young person, it only cost 10k NZ, much cheaper than moving house.

[LemonMyrtle]

Maybe the focus on the land size isn’t quite right. Maybe we need to ask:

how small is too small for a home?

the plans for the townhouse on the 86m2 block is for a 9 square home. That’s about the size of a 2 bed apartment in those big apartments in box hill. The kitchen shows a dining table, but it would be a stretch to fit 4 people there, more likely a small 2 person table. A queen bed and 2 bedside tables would fill the master, leaving little, perhaps no space, for any other chest of drawers. There is very little storage, and only 1 car space that will, in reality, fill that entire yard. So this townhouse is small. Suits 1-2 people. Which is fine. But should we allow developers to build such small homes? Or such small apartments? In the outer suburbs where land is available for something better? 
and are they just ticking an “affordable housing” box by offering this? Rather than some family could use? 

[Mooguru]

10 minutes ago, LemonMyrtle said:

Maybe the focus on the land size isn’t quite right. Maybe we need to ask:

how small is too small for a home?

the plans for the townhouse on the 86m2 block is for a 9 square home. That’s about the size of a 2 bed apartment in those big apartments in box hill. The kitchen shows a dining table, but it would be a stretch to fit 4 people there, more likely a small 2 person table. A queen bed and 2 bedside tables would fill the master, leaving little, perhaps no space, for any other chest of drawers. There is very little storage, and only 1 car space that will, in reality, fill that entire yard. So this townhouse is small. Suits 1-2 people. Which is fine. But should we allow developers to build such small homes? Or such small apartments? In the outer suburbs where land is available for something better? 
and are they just ticking an “affordable housing” box by offering this? Rather than some family could use? 

I dunno, the amount of ridiculously large oversized houses out there, maybe there needs to be balanced. Not everyone wants masses of wasted space, 3 living areas, 20sqm main bedrooms etc.

Looking at building its much easier to find designs for oversized than smaller homes.

I live in a 50sqm 2bed apartment. Our previous apartment was probably close to 10 square (90sqm-ish) and would have very comfortably housed a family of 4.