Social media ban for children to be introduced in next 12 months

[Crombek]

Im all for it but I do wonder how they are going to police it. Will they fine Meta if an account is found to belong to someone under 14? Or will the parent be held responsible? 

I know a number of kids who's parents have no idea how many back up accounts thy have, or what they are posting on them & who they are chatting to. It's easy to do from a friend's phone. 

I always tell parents - assume your kid has twice the number of accounts they tell you they have. Because they know at some point you'll try to parent them by restricting access & they need to be prepared. 

[WaitForMe]

26 minutes ago, dianalynch said:

I don’t think the government is suggesting it is a parenting fail, it is a whole of society fail. 

Yeah, I admittedly haven't read the articles yet but I assumed the onus will be on the social media companies. There will be ways to bypass but with each fine and pressure from the government, they will (fingers crossed) put more effort into limiting access by children.

This will make it so much easier for me as a parent. Even if there are still kids at school on social media, its much more effective for me to say that its against the law than its against our family rules and "every family is different blah blah".

[LifesGood]

I also don't get the argument that 'if parents are not going to police their kids properly then whose fault is it' i.e. it's all about individual rights and responsibility. This is part of the massive problem in the US where governments are supposed to be small and not interfere in people's lives. Any cursory study of sociology and history tells you this is rubbish. People need rules and guardrails otherwise civilisation breaks down.

[Elfie34]

I’m all for it. My kids are almost 10 and almost 13. Only the older one has a phone and it is still fairly Locked down and he can’t download apps etc without my permission. Youngest has no phone and both don’t have social media accounts. 

however my eldest has a school laptop and I have caught him on forums (all relating to Nintendo he is a nerd). We talked about the whole of grade WhatsApp grow but decided not to join it together. I know that if he wanted to join something bad enough he could. 

I guess in some ways I have been lucky that my youngests social group no one has their own phone yet and I never let her get messenger kids Facebook. 

ironically considering I am on a forum right now, I would support wider social media Reform for adults and children and a real clamp down on any false information at all. I can’t believe how full of rubbish the internet is and worry that humanity is getting more manipulatable and controllable through it

[LemonMyrtle]

I’ve mentioned the insane amounts of ID verification you need here in Korea to do the most mundane things. Well, accessing adult websites is one of them. This is how they police it.

if I google “p**n search for EB”, I get a bunch of benign results and a prompt for me to verify my age if I was adult-only results. See first image.

then you click the link and you have to enter your personal details and your phone number. Your details are actually checked by your phone provider, because you need ID to get your phone contract, so it’s just how they have done it. Google says they don’t keep your records, just pass them on for verification then it’s deleted.

The same phone-provider-authentication is used for lots of things, shopping online, creating a new account with your electricity provider, almost anything online.

if you don’t have a mobile phone plan in your name, you are stuffed. But that’s ok, cause this is Korea, everyone has a phone and it’s attached to them constantly. And this is one of the reasons why, so you can verify yourself to do things.

There is not much anonymity here. People are just used to that. 

[Julie3Girls]

My family would be stuffed - I have 4 phones all under my account.  Absolutely nothing linking them to my girls. Haven’t changed them to their ow names because we would loose the legacy phone plan they are currently on.

[LemonMyrtle]

1 minute ago, Julie3Girls said:

My family would be stuffed - I have 4 phones all under my account.  Absolutely nothing linking them to my girls. Haven’t changed them to their ow names because we would loose the legacy phone plan they are currently on.

Yeah, in this situation (not sure about the Aussie social media thing) once you turn 18 you definitely need your own phone plan in your own name or you won’t be able to do much, even your banking needs a phone in your name. Otherwise you have to go to a branch for everything.  I wanted to log into DH’s bank account to check his balance and pay some bills, I couldn’t do it, it’s linked to his phone and his phone only. 

[pelagic]

@LemonMyrtleWhat if you are just travelling in Korea? Can you access things? 

Edited September 10 by pelagic

[LemonMyrtle]

Just now, pelagic said:

What if you are just travelling in Korea? Can you access things? 

Not online. Face to face is fine, especially if you pay cash. Online is slowly getting better and sometimes foreign credit cards are accepted. There was one meal Delivery service that took foreign credit cards, but now I think there are two. Generally, if you’re here for just say 3 months or something, you’re dealing with cash and face to face transactions for 3 months. Not the end of the world, just annoying. 

[pelagic]

1 minute ago, LemonMyrtle said:

Not online. Face to face is fine, especially if you pay cash. Online is slowly getting better and sometimes foreign credit cards are accepted. There was one meal Delivery service that took foreign credit cards, but now I think there are two. Generally, if you’re here for just say 3 months or something, you’re dealing with cash and face to face transactions for 3 months. Not the end of the world, just annoying. 

Oh wow. I didn't realise it was that bad (so widespread). I've looked into just buying concert or fan meeting tickets and it was a nightmare. Korea seriously does not want our money. 

[LemonMyrtle]

Just now, pelagic said:

Oh wow. I didn't realise it was that bad (so widespread). I've looked into just buying concert or fan meeting tickets and it was a nightmare. Korea seriously does not want our money. 

You just have to go through Klook or something like that and cop the extra booking fees. 

[Crombek]

@LemonMyrtle so how does that work for phones on business plans? 

[LemonMyrtle]

4 minutes ago, Crombek said:

@LemonMyrtle so how does that work for phones on business plans? 

Not sure. DH has a work phone, they pay for it, but it’s in his name still. So maybe that’s what everyone does? Or you have to have two phones. 

[STBG 2]

1 hour ago, LifesGood said:

I don't understand why you would be against a legislated ban that may help prevent other kids and parents from going through this? The horse has only bolted for current generation of kids. They are going to try something different, not the same. Surely you care about trying to help future generations?

Where did I say I was against it ? I'd love nothing more than a ban but trying to reel it in after the flood gates have been opened is going to be hard. I am very realistic about the issues it will cause many parents trying to manage this with their kids and I do not have a great trust in the ability of the government to be effective because they have already failed.

[Two-bit]

I don't want to give Meta or Google my government-issued ID. A number generator or login token generator would be a good compromise I guess, like the work login thingys.

We are in the strict parent category I think. I know plenty of my sons friends and other children online whose parents are not... Just this week DS1 aged 12 has 'forced' me (DP also agreed it was fine) to sign up for an app he will be using in a school-based activity, as the age limit was 13. I signed up and put 'lying' in the user name and password just to remind him it was not ok. I feel very conflicted about it and would much have preferred he just not do the activity, but I was outvoted by DP.

Last weekend we had 11 year olds (grade 5s) at our home. One was telling me that he uses Discord to speak to his other friend and play online games. There is not a snowballs chance in hell that any of my children are touching Discord until they are 16+. I have encountered 12 and 13yos on Discord playing online games. I don't care how often their parents check their accounts it is way too easy for a child to delete a server and hide what they are doing. The less my children know about how to use Discord the better.

DS1 has a very locked down phone, and we monitor his laptop internet use. Despite this he has managed to use a web-based game that is totally inappropriate on that phone and on his school laptop. I dobbed him into the school. It requires constant vigilance and I don't think all parents have the capacity to do what we do.

DS2 has an iPad for school, it is also pretty locked down. We don't allow any apps that allow them to post content or interact with other people in any way. The only thing they can do is iMessage my mum, aunt and their aunts and uncles.

I can see how often they pick up their device. Bearing in mind they don't even have anything exciting on their devices. DS1 averaged 37 phone pickups per day. Probably using it to check time and messages to my mum but thats so much.

[Yogaalaates]

1 hour ago, Crombek said:

Im all for it but I do wonder how they are going to police it. Will they fine Meta if an account is found to belong to someone under 14? Or will the parent be held responsible? 

I know a number of kids who's parents have no idea how many back up accounts thy have, or what they are posting on them & who they are chatting to. It's easy to do from a friend's phone. 

I always tell parents - assume your kid has twice the number of accounts they tell you they have. Because they know at some point you'll try to parent them by restricting access & they need to be prepared. 

The SA government says the companies will be fined, I think they mentioned 7 figure amounts.

[Crombek]

4 minutes ago, Yogaalaates said:

The SA government says the companies will be fined, I think they mentioned 7 figure amounts.

Lol Meta is going to laugh and ignore them completely. They don't even care that they're allowing (some would say promoting) child s*x abuse, catfishing & scamming & the promotion of warfare, they certainly aren't going to care one bit what particular aus state govts say about ages. 

[LifesGood]

Maybe we can do what Brazil has just done to Xitter.

[null]

Just throwing out random ideas. 

I think it would be better to redefine how we interact with social media so everyone's health and well being can be better supported.

I think one of the problems with social media is how difficult it is to control what you see in your feeds. 

There a ways social media companies can make this process of controlling your feed easier. For example by allowing you to rate how each post makes you feel (educated, angry, sad, happy, insecure, entertained etc) on a scale and allow you to nudge the algorithm directly. Or by actually making them obey the don't-show-me posts-like-this commands.

They could also allow you to define and change goals (in sentence form) of what you want from the feed (rather than just categories) and the algorithms would use this information to direct posts your way.

There could also be a new class of apps that allow you to curate a single feed and funnel other social media feeds through to one central feed. You can then rate each post according to how it makes you feel or to stop/show more of posts or to set goals for your feed. The app would then use this information to nudge the social media's algorithm. The application programming interface (API) could be mandated and regulated by governments. You could then lock down devices to only have one app that shows a curated feed. Ads could still be funneled through so the social media company still gets ad revenue. Parents could be allowed to monitor their children's feeds or show an overview of what topics their children are viewing.

Any technology change would need cooperation of many countries though to stop social media companies from simply shutting up shop in smaller countries rather than comply.

[LemonMyrtle]

What will they define social media as, I wonder?

my kids have school iPads/tablet devices. And they message their friends using Apple messages mostly (via each others email addresses). No social media is used because the majority of parents won’t let them, and in Korea Facebook isn’t a big thing (they use Naver and Kakao and other things) But they’re so active with their messages that it’s like social media anyway. And bullying could easily happen, so I have to check it regularly.

And they use Teams at school, get a big enough teams group and that’s like social media too. 

but you can’t block messaging, that’s also what we use to message each other when we are out and about. You can’t block teams cause that’s for education. 

And what about in-game messaging? Like in Roblox and Minecraft etc?

blocking Facebook and instagram for my kids won’t make a bit of difference, they don’t use it. 

[Two-bit]

4 minutes ago, LemonMyrtle said:

What will they define social media as, I wonder?

my kids have school iPads/tablet devices. And they message their friends using Apple messages mostly (via each others email addresses). No social media is used because the majority of parents won’t let them, and in Korea Facebook isn’t a big thing (they use Naver and Kakao and other things) But they’re so active with their messages that it’s like social media anyway. And bullying could easily happen, so I have to check it regularly.

And they use Teams at school, get a big enough teams group and that’s like social media too. 

but you can’t block messaging, that’s also what we use to message each other when we are out and about. You can’t block teams cause that’s for education. 

And what about in-game messaging? Like in Roblox and Minecraft etc?

blocking Facebook and instagram for my kids won’t make a bit of difference, they don’t use it. 

Text messaging too, as my son has a phone for letting us know if he misses the bus etc. Random though - i remember when we would carry 20c with us for the phone. And there was an insult - here's 20c so you can call someone who cares.

I just check his messages, I don't care. And they only have devices at home under our direct supervision. No phone or iPad in the bedroom, they go on a charger next to my bed at night time. Trying to minimise the fear factor if some arsehole little bully is being mean to him, at least he won't see it in his room.

[Jolly_F]

I would like more information before I jump on either side of the fence. I think there are great benefits to social media along with great downfalls. So clarity is needed for me to pick a side. 

[LifesGood]

I'm firmly in the camp of 'social media is a net detriment to the world'.

Any steps that can be taken to regulate it are a good thing IMHO.

[Jolly_F]

1 minute ago, LifesGood said:

I'm firmly in the camp of 'social media is a net detriment to the world'.

Any steps that can be taken to regulate it are a good thing IMHO.

Well that great for you but I have a kid who would be dead if she hadn’t found her safe place due to social media. So forgive me for not picking a side based on the very little info provided on the matter! 

[Jenflea]

I love social media. I use Messenger all the time, I love FB and follow all sorts of people and friends in other countries. 

DD is 14 and isn't on it, at all. She sees the trouble her friends get into by being on it that it's enough of a deterrent to her. 

Her year group has had inappropriate photos and messages sent through SM that the police got involved in, her friends and other classmates bully each other. It's awful, but they'd do that with texts almost as easily as social media.

I don't like influencers and the filters etc they use. I think that's not good, but as a way to connect with other like minded people, it can be a good thing.

ANYTHING can be terrible if used the wrong way.