Robodebt royal commission

[dianalynch]

Commissioner Holmes has handed down her report, and what a report it is 

the victims of robodebt have been vindicated, the scheme identified as a gaslighting work of evil, perpetuated by gutless public servants to please their inhumane political masters 

too late for those who lost their lives after being wrongly targeted and treated as criminals, instead of vulnerable citizens that the very same department was supposed to afford a dignified safety net

 

[Bornagirl]

Thanks for starting this.  My daughter didn't tell me about hers until the debt collectors starting calling (as she didn't have the $3.5k they demanded).  She put off telling me because she assumed she was too stupid to complete the online requirements correctly.   In her case there wasn't even any crossover between work income and study payment. Her employer simply put the full year on the annual income statement, and that's all it took. Also didn't provide pay slips. Also failed to sign one of the forms our daughter took to her to sign to confirm dates of employment.  Three EMPLOYER errors.  Did they hear about it? Of course not, no money for the government in that.

 

[STBG 2]

@Bornagirl our youngest had one of the same amount. She had done all that was required of her, she was a student working part time and the slip up was also her employer. This pretty much led to a downward spiral in her mental health which was already teetering.

[Bornagirl]

12 minutes ago, STBG 2 said:

@Bornagirl our youngest had one of the same amount. She had done all that was required of her, she was a student working part time and the slip up was also her employer. This pretty much led to a downward spiral in her mental health which was already teetering.

I'm sorry to hear it.   If only she'd shown me straight away, I'd have looked at her income statement and recognised the problem, and being a couple of years earlier, the employer might not have been so difficult about it.

At least we still have our kids.  I just feel devastated for the parents & families of those who couldn't face it.   I do hope some people pay the price for what they've done.

[STBG 2]

15 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

I'm sorry to hear it.   If only she'd shown me straight away, I'd have looked at her income statement and recognised the problem, and being a couple of years earlier, the employer might not have been so difficult about it.

At least we still have our kids.  I just feel devastated for the parents & families of those who couldn't face it.   I do hope some people pay the price for what they've done.

Fortunately ours did show us  a few days after she received it although it had done enormous damage even in that time. 

Like you I am just heartbroken for those who found it just too much.:(

 

[Ozgirl]

25 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

I do hope some people pay the price for what they've done.

Me too. It might be hormonal but I was in tears yesterday listening to a detailed report on it. Those aresholes that did this!! Listening to the blatant disregard and even defending themselves. And how many now disgraced leaders were at the helm (even if you take scomo out of the equation!!) Tudge and Porter come to mind. 

I just realised and maybe it has already happened but those who paid their debts will they get them back? 

[Bornagirl]

2 minutes ago, Ozgirl said:

Me too. It might be hormonal but I was in tears yesterday listening to a detailed report on it. Those aresholes that did this!! Listening to the blatant disregard and even defending themselves. And how many now disgraced leaders were at the helm (even if you take scomo out of the equation!!) Tudge and Porter come to mind. 

I just realised and maybe it has already happened but those who paid their debts will they get them back? 

Yes, with some petty compensation. It was all paid back a year or two ago. My daughter didn't pay hers, she didn't have the money, and by the time we were in the thick of sorting it out, the court challenge had come about, and they announced they weren't pursuing the debts until it was resolved. In the meantime they took her $500ish tax return though, which she really needed. O.k. she had us, she wasn't going to be sleeping on the street or in her car, like plenty who would be desperately waiting for the money, but it certainly had an effect on her mental health - I should imagine that would have happened to the majority.

Once it was all resolved, the tax return was paid back to her, and she received $36 compensation for the withholding of that money.  Compensation was paid according to how much of the person's money they held, and for how long.

 

[Ozgirl]

2 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

O.k. she had us, she wasn't going to be sleeping on the street or in her car, like plenty who would be desperately waiting for the money, but it certainly had an effect on her mental health - I should imagine that would have happened to the majority.

Absolutely..

And those responsible won't feel as much hurt. Even the lawyer fees will like have a dent in their overall net wealth. 

[MerryMadigralMadge]

This article about how the Commission calls for reframing of how welfare is perceived and its recipients treated is so on point - for all sides of politics and for Australians. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/07/the-robodebt-royal-commission-revealed-the-worst-of-welfare-cop-politics-but-what-happens-next-is-up-to-us-all

 

Holmes makes clear that though there was individual and institutional wrongdoing (or, as she put it, “venality, incompetence and cowardice”), robodebt was built upon a broader cultural failing.

In the royal commission hearings, observers saw politicians take the stand to be finally challenged on a great Australian political tradition: demonising welfare recipients.

…..“The evidence before the commission was that fraud in the welfare system was minuscule, but that is not the impression one would get from what ministers responsible for social security payments have said over the years,” Holmes wrote.

…..But she warns that the “effectiveness of any recommended change” is reliant on a broader cultural shift that cannot be effected by a policy change.

Holmes says “anti-welfare rhetoric” and attitudes have been set by politicians, who must now lead “a change in social attitudes to people receiving welfare payments”.

Holmes says “anti-welfare rhetoric” and attitudes have been set by politicians, who must now lead “a change in social attitudes to people receiving welfare payments”.

……But her overarching call for a new way to talk about welfare and those who rely on it can be heeded by politicians, the media and the broader public now.

With the rate of jobseeker payments and the broader welfare system occupying the national debate these days, we have already seen a return of some of the cynical rhetoric about “bludgers” and “cheats” that dominated the period in politics when robodebt was born. As Holmes’ report shows, it is both false and dangerous.

We will soon see whether her call has been heard.

[dianalynch]

I worked at human services, and left in 2016. One of the reasons I left was I no longer recognised the department I had joined. 

I was senior enough to know many of the public servants that gave evidence, or certainly knew of them. At the time I worked there, I thought several of them to be terrible human beings. A couple were simply the worst people I had ever met. It seems the Commissioner thought so too. 

Others were committed and dedicated public servants, and I know that several of them, like the victims, developed serious mental health conditions as a result of working through that dark time. Many tried to raise the alarm, and were thwarted. I’m glad they’ve been vindicated too. 

[Mooguru]

@dianalynch I know a few people who left there during that time saying the exact same as you. 

The whole thing is disgraceful 

[IamtheMumma]

I'm reading the report and I think the debt that I had a few years back was a robodebt. It was over 5K (which I've paid back). I had a phone call one day about owing Centrelink money. I had an appointment a few days later where the Centrelink CSO told me that I needed to provide my payslips for the last 3 years and that after they'd established that I'd been "double dipping", I'd be sent to jail for defrauding the government. I was absolutely scared out of my mind. Not only would I be away from my kids, my work life would be over as a criminal conviction would mean I'd lose my registration. 

 

[Lesley225]

If you paid it back did you owe it?

[Bornagirl]

16 hours ago, IamtheMumma said:

I'm reading the report and I think the debt that I had a few years back was a robodebt. It was over 5K (which I've paid back). I had a phone call one day about owing Centrelink money. I had an appointment a few days later where the Centrelink CSO told me that I needed to provide my payslips for the last 3 years and that after they'd established that I'd been "double dipping", I'd be sent to jail for defrauding the government. I was absolutely scared out of my mind. Not only would I be away from my kids, my work life would be over as a criminal conviction would mean I'd lose my registration. 

 

Anyone who was assessed as having a Robodebt (i.e. their debt calculated by that method) was refunded and automatically opted in to the piddling compensation scheme.   I believe the first income year widely being used was June 2013, but may be out a year.

Our daughter didn't have to do anything to qualify for the refund - it was all automatic.

The robodebt ones were sent out by letter, and there were so many of them I'd be surprised if phone calls and appointments were organised. 

If you provided all of your payslips and it was still established that you'd been overpaid, I'm afraid there's a reasonable chance that you were.  If it was a Robodebt and you were able to provide accurate payslips, then the debt was cleared.

 

[BornToLove]

The podcast 7am is doing a series on robodebt this week with Rick Morton. Todays episode is Rick interviewing Bill Shorten. The rest of the week sounds interesting, worth checking out. 

[Ozgirl]

6 minutes ago, BornToLove said:

The podcast 7am is doing a series on robodebt this week with Rick Morton. Todays episode is Rick interviewing Bill Shorten. The rest of the week sounds interesting, worth checking out. 

Thanks for this. I wondered how to hear more from him.

[ContentedFleur]

I hope this link goes through, because it highlights some of the most despicable behaviour by Scott "Never MY fault" Morrison ever, and that's saying something. 

https://twitter.com/catrollison/status/1678025932098117633?s=20

[Ozgirl]

36 minutes ago, ContentedFleur said:

I hope this link goes through, because it highlights some of the most despicable behaviour by Scott "Never MY fault" Morrison ever, and that's saying something. 

https://twitter.com/catrollison/status/1678025932098117633?s=20

And then the dickhead releases this

 

[Moomintroll]

Geeze I hope he is one of the people to face charges. They all knew from the start it was wrong. Terrible. 

[Lesley225]

1 hour ago, ContentedFleur said:

I hope this link goes through, because it highlights some of the most despicable behaviour by Scott "Never MY fault" Morrison ever, and that's saying something. 

https://twitter.com/catrollison/status/1678025932098117633?s=20

What does it say?  Unfortunately twitter have changed the rules and any replies are no longer viewable.  

[BornToLove]

12 minutes ago, Lesley225 said:

What does it say?  Unfortunately twitter have changed the rules and any replies are no longer viewable.  

That Morrison signed off on 20 Feb 2015 that robodebt was a dead duck policy. 11 days later Katheryn Campbell and her deputy phoenixed it as a new policy proposal under pressure from Morrison to find a way to get it back up. 

[purplekitty]

33 minutes ago, Lesley225 said:

What does it say?  Unfortunately twitter have changed the rules and any replies are no longer viewable.  

It works for me?

[DrowninginPlushies]

I followed Robodebt at the time as I was having a different issue with Clink, but still their fault, and large-ish amounts of money (I tried to tell them, they said I was wrong.... then... you criminal! give it back!!)

I started having out of character panic attacks if I got a text message saying I had a message in my MyGov inbox (DD was in daycare). I admitted this to other parents and they said they had the same panic/fear response and if they couldn't check immediately they'd become worse. So, I can only imagine what Robodebt victims felt in comparison since it was such a massive problem they couldn't escape, and knew they couldn't win, even though they had done nothing wrong. 

A system of social support isn't working if people are afraid of using it, and aren't listened to. I hope they name and shame, and force the perpetrators to face public consequences - not just for the current victims, but to deter out of touch government staff from trying it again because it won't be covered up forever.

[Ozgirl]

58 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Geeze I hope he is one of the people to face charges. They all knew from the start it was wrong. Terrible. 

In worried his defense will be I didn't know and when I did as prime minister I made steps to right it. 

[BornToLove]

@DrowninginPlushies - I get the same panic attacks to my gov notifications. DD is in high school now and no longer qualifies for child care rebates but I had that little bolt of panic last week when I got a my gov notification that a message was waiting for me. I wish they would tell you which service sent the notice (this instance was the ATO). It would make life much easier.